Vice Chancellor for Human Resources, Al Crusoe
On Diversity, Inclusiveness, and the State of Maricopa

On November 17, 2005, Expressions Editor Jeanne Belisle Lombardo met with Vice Chancellor Crusoe. Following is the interview in which Mr. Crusoe shares his views on diversity, the Chancellor's vision for inclusiveness, and the state of Maricopa within the national system of community colleges.

JL: You have had impressive experience in Human Resources before coming to Maricopa in May 2005, most recently eight years with the Seattle Community College District. You are known to have built "a high-quality, diverse employee base" there. What are some practices you established to help you achieve that?

AC: Well, I think it is overly generous about me building a high quality employee base but it was reflected with my HR department. There in Seattle HR, I had probably the most diverse employee department in the district and I think it starts with 1) having a commitment to diversity; and 2) following up that commitment with action. And it was not a commitment based on diversity for diversity's sake but making sure that when I hired employees the pool was diverse and that there were qualified and high quality people in those pools and that those people who happened to be selected turned out to be reflective of our commitment to diversity in all regards. So I think it starts with a commitment by individuals about what they want to achieve based on the mission and vision of their department or the college district at large.

JL: You mentioned making sure that the pool was reflective of the organization or the department in this case. What are some of the things you can do to ensure that you've got a good pool?

AC: I think one of the most important things is to make sure that your job description is accurate and not overly inflated with desirable qualifications that may or may not result in a quality pool. For example a lot of times individuals, when they are developing job descriptions, will put a lot of emphasis on years of experience. I don't know that you can quantify the difference between three and five years of experience and success on the job, but I think the data would show that more stringent qualifications would tend to restrict the number of qualified people in the pool. So by being more open to make sure that you're developing a job description that's based on essential functions of the job, I think you have a better chance of making sure you do have a very inclusive pool thereby having a better opportunity to hire very high caliber and quality people.

JL: Moving away from the pool, does this also include certain practices concerning where you advertise that would result in a more diverse pool?

AC: It depends upon the position. Certainly if you're looking for a position at a director level or above, chances are you would want to do some type of national advertisement in order to attract a larger pool. If it's a position at the management level you would probably look more locally or statewide. Another excellent source for qualified candidates is also your internal organizational base and in some cases, for instance in HR, people that may have people skills who may not have had prior HR experience but if they've had some good quality people skills or the person has worked in student services or the instructional level, you certainly wouldn't want to exclude them from consideration. So you have to look at all sources and try to be more inclusive in the process in order to attract the widest variety and highest caliber level of applicants.

JL: Certainly there are a lot of transferable skills and sometimes it boils down to the people skills…

AC: Yes, it's very, very important especially for HR

JL: What would you say is the role of an institution in creating a diverse workplace?

AC: Well, I think it just makes good business sense, and particularly if you're looking at a state supported entity, that your work force is inclusive of diversity. That's just public policy and it's also good business sense. People learn from others who may not look or act or think exactly like themselves. And that's what it's all about. So to exclude someone because they do not look, act, or think like someone else is losing a lot of brain power and if you're looking to advance an institution you need to make sure you're tapping all the available resources. And certainly in an educational institution our students are going to be very diverse and we owe it to ourselves to make sure that our employee base is diverse because in many respects we do serve as possible role models to those students when they are in the classroom, that they see teachers who look like them, when they're in the district office they see individuals in various positions that look like them. That provides some incentive to them to continue their education and a point to strive for, and in many cases, particularly persons of color may not have had those types of role models as abundantly in their lives to look up to, so I think that serves as an added incentive to be in those positions so people can look at us and strive to do things even greater than what we're doing.

JL: In that respect how different or similar are Phoenix and Seattle as regards diversity? When you landed here….

AC: In Seattle the Asian population was the largest minority population in the state. Here in Phoenix it's the Hispanic population that's the largest minority population in the state so that was probably the biggest difference. I think basically the same issues are there. I think there's a lot of competition to attract diverse candidates and so that's why when I mentioned earlier there has to be that commitment to reach out and do the right kinds of things to do that because like I said there's a lot of competition to attract minority candidates in addition to whatever real or imagined barriers that are out there. So I think that would probably be the biggest difference when I first got here. So would maybe be the Native American population. I think another part of it and more from a competitive aspect… I would, I kind of saw Seattle as a little bit more, and I hate to say cosmopolitan, a little bit more, in terms of direction, a little bit more liberal in terms of the acceptance of some diverse populations than possibly what I've seen so far here.

JL: You mentioned just now there's a lot of competition and that seems to be more of an issue as far as attracting that limited pool of qualified staff. How do you think we're positioned in that respect?

AC: Well Maricopa obviously has a very positive image among community colleges; it's a very large institution; it's experiencing both growth and abundant resources, so that certainly is a plus. I think when I mentioned competition a lot of things also play a part in terms of anyone relocating, and particularly persons of color, and that is lifestyle issues. And access to metropolitan types of activities might be very important, such as access to ethnic foods. This may be a consideration for people moving anywhere and also to AZ. So in addition to what a college has to offer because of life style and the importance that people put on lifestyle and their free time, that also plays a very important part of attracting people, anybody and certainly I would say people of color. And of course weather, that's also a very important factor in considering making a change in jobs.

JL: Chancellor Glasper has expressed his optimism in your ability to help Maricopa continue to be representative and reflective of the communities we serve. With this in mind, what policies and procedures are in place right now in Maricopa to ensure that we recruit the "best and the brightest"?

AC: Well I think there are some things that Dr. Glasper has already instituted and provided in term of his vision and mission for the district. I think one of the things I see from a Human Resources point of view is that we really need to take a look at our recruitment activities and what we are doing now to see if they are being effective. I'm the type of person, I like to take a look at the data to help me plan for the future. And so that's one of the things that we will be doing from a departmental point of view is trying to find out and trying to track what are we doing and to see if we're utilizing our resources to the best extent possible. I think that's one of the things we certainly need to try to get a better handle on. The other part of this which I feel is very important in terms of better assuring that we recruit the best and the brightest is to hold people accountable, to hold managers and others accountable, people that are involved in the hiring process, to hold them accountable to the mission and the vision that Dr. Glasper has laid out for us and that is looking at what they've done in the area of diversity in terms of their hires, opportunities for people to get professional development and growth in their departments, I think really looking at that and holding people accountable in those positions because it can't happen by Dr. Glasper. by himself, it can't happen by Human Resources itself but it's going to take the total commitment of the district and in particularly the commitment of those individuals who are in positions of authority who do the hiring and determining the future of the employees within their respective departments.

JL: Certainly there seems to be a lot more direction in that respect, even in the six years I have been around and on hiring committees, it's nice to get more direction on how to hire.

AC: Yes, There are programs like "Hiring the Best," there are various trainings. That's good, but the bottom line as I see it is outcomes. So you can have all the training in the world, you can have all the vision in the world, but the data which is the outcomes will determine whether you're being successful or not. And if not, why not and what can we do differently and better to help enhance and improve our diversity efforts.

JL: Could we do more in this respect?

AC: I think it's a continuous process of review and assessment. I think you can't rest on your laurels but you have to let your data help drive what you want to do in the future. It's a life-long commitment just like anything else to achieve optimum health, you have to make a lifelong commitment. You just can't diet for a month and then say you've reached the point where you don't have to continue. Such is maintaining and having a diverse workforce, you have to make a continuous commitment towards and continually assess your efforts and where you're falling short to come up with plans where you can achieve your goals.

JL: In the Press Release announcing your appointment as VC of HR, your commitment to community involvement was highlighted as it relates to your work with various public schools and districts in the Seattle area. Can you talk about this? Would something like this work in Maricopa?

AC: I think so. One of the things I like to do is be visible in the community. And certainly that's one of the things I've tried to do so far since I've been here in the three months, of going to banquets, going to various meetings. I think partly in the positions that we serve, we serve as role models. As I mentioned earlier I think the more we are visible in the community it helps others who see us in positions to help to achieve or do better than how we're doing. And also being in the community, you can utilize the talents of the community to assist you in your affirmative action or diversity objectives. Because as you're meeting individuals, you might meet persons with the experiences that a college district would be in need of and so you can come to use that as a connection to get you to where you want to go. So you're meeting people and you're assessing those people and a lot of times that might be the connection; you may serve as a connection between them and opportunity with the Maricopa Community colleges. So I think it's very important.

JL: What kind of organizational culture will be supported under your direction?

AC: In addition to my years of experience in the public sector and Human Resources I also worked for about ten years in Human Resources in the private sector and there are certain things that have been instilled in me from the private sector that I certainly will be trying to instill in my staff. I think some of the things that are important in general is to take more of a business approach to the delivery of services. And by this I mean that we have to find out what the needs of the customer are. And be responsive to those needs as opposed to having the customer be responsive to our structure. How can we better serve them? How can we meet their needs? We also have to be professional and deliver professional services, looking for the best way, the best practice for the delivery of services, and we have to be expedient in our delivering the service, and lastly, but certainly not least, we have to focus on outcomes. How can we be measured, how can we be judged by what we're doing and so we have to make sure we're focusing on the outcomes of our services. Part of Human Resources from the business/private sector experience I've had, I think that we have to be able to see ourselves more than just Human Resource Professionals but also as, and I'll use the term, business partners, so our role needs to be more that of a strategic partner and consultant to work, help and guide, collaborate with the people that we work with as opposed to dictate. It's working more in collaboration with our customers, our colleges, our managers, and presidents and so forth.

JL: Would you say that the structure of Maricopa, the autonomy of these ten distinct colleges, facilitates this or does it hinder it?

AC: I think, you know, there are ten colleges, so the size of the district causes some issues of trying to provide optimum type of services for ten colleges and the other service delivery areas, so I think the size of the district does present some concerns. You've constantly got to look at your department, your structure and try to work within your organizational restrictions and your budget.

JL: If you could think of one word to describe your organizational culture, could you come up with one?

AC: I would say collaborative, you need to be collaborative. I may see things from a Human Resources point of view, but I need to collaborate with people who may see it from an instructional point of view, from a student services point of view, from a financial point of view, to make sure that we're meeting their needs from their stand point and not just from a HR focus.

JL: In September the Chancellor unveiled his "Maricopa Learns Through Service" employee development program. Do you support Maricopans engaging in community service on release time from their jobs?

AC: I do support this. I think it's vital that employees expand beyond the buildings where we work and expand beyond the houses that we live in. To get into community organizations, to get involved in community type work because I think that builds character, it builds awareness, it provides in many cases an opportunity to give back to organizations that don't have it as well as we do here at Maricopa. And it's a learning experience that broadens the base and again I think the more that we can interact with people that don't look or act like us helps to broaden our awareness and the acceptability of differences and diversity.

JL: Do you know what the response has been on the part of the employees? I know we're in the pilot period for this program …How much interest has there been on the part of the employees?

AC: It is a pilot period and I think that the response wasn't as great as was anticipated but I think a lot of it depends upon where we go after the pilot. I think those people that are in the program and their experiences will be great roles and role models for those to come. I think that when any type of a new program starts up, people are a little cautious about a commitment but I'm confident that in the next program the numbers of people that want to participate will drastically increase.

JL: I certainly intended to but like a lot of people at Maricopa, I got too busy.

AC: Yes, people are cautious to see how this activity will fit into their lives. I think that the ones who are going through the program and the experiences they can share back with us will help to increase participation in future programs.

JL: Can you comment on the Chancellor's vision for inclusion, engagement and respect in our district?

AC: Well I think it's a very enlightening and bold vision and I think it's a tribute to the Chancellor and his deep-felt commitment in the area of inclusion, engagement, and respect. So I think he should be commended for providing this type of a vision for the district and the leadership for that to happen, and more importantly for allowing and providing the opportunity for employees to share in this vision, by allowing them to be engaged and allowing them to be inclusive in terms of involvement within the college. Not only is his vision expressed orally but I think actions speak louder than words and he's committed to it. The programs that we've got going now are a testament to his total commitment to having a district that has vision, inclusiveness, engagement, that fosters respect for everyone in the district.

JL: Is there any message you would like to convey to the readership of the Expressions Diversity Newsletter?

AC: I'm very happy to be with Maricopa Community Colleges. It's a vanguard district, not that it doesn't have its challenges, but I've been very impressed so far with the quality of the people that work for the district, of their dedication to the district, and the resources that are available for employees, for professional development and other growth opportunities. So there are a number of things that are in place to move Maricopa even further than where we are now in terms of stature within the country's community colleges. I'm very excited and I'm very humbled by the opportunity to have been selected to be the Vice Chancellor for Human Resources, to head up this division, and to be engaged in the various initiatives that will help reach the Chancellor's vision on inclusiveness and diversity. And I'm very happy for this interview.

JL: Thank you very much.

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